Boynton Beach Satsang – Transcript

Stuart: Silence is very sweet, and I like it. But then the thought comes up: what about the fun later? Fun later. You can always be still. But fun later. That’s funny.


Stuart: Cause then that’ll probably mean we’ll be with people, and we’ll be happy, and we’ll do something, and we’ll enjoy ourselves.

(Student #1) But the silence is sweet. It’s not like I’m trying to get away from the silence.

Stuart: Of course not.


No, it’s just my mind comes up.

Stuart: Silence is very sweet. I like it. I like it a lot. But the fun later—well, that’s something.

It’s sweet too.

Stuart: It’s very sweet.

Yeah, they’re both sweet, so I go with it. I don’t resist it. Anyways, that’s what’s happening.

Stuart: Well, it’s life. See, the silence is forever. That’s a long time.

(#1) Always here.

Stuart: That’s right. It’s always here. And you’ve got to fill the time that you’re here with something. It might as well be fun. I’ve got nothing against fun, except it does pull one from getting absorbed into the silence. It kind of like yanks one out of the depth of god knows where. The mind has a way of saying, yeah, we did the silence. We were quiet. Almost eight minutes.


Stuart: Right? Maybe nine.

(#2) It’s hard to go back.


Stuart: And if he’s not going to talk, if he’s not gonna tell us something here, whatever he’s gonna say, he’s gonna teach us something, then I’m leaving the silence on my own.


Stuart: I’ll just look quiet.


Stuart: But then you can always look at people, and you can see them kind of listening. It’s very obvious.

(#1) Listening to what?

Stuart: Their own head. If I won’t talk, you have to listen to yourself.

(#1) Even though my eyes are closed, you could tell I was thinking a thought?

Stuart: You could tell. There’s a different energy that comes across. You see, there’s no one there at all when you’re not thinking. Let that sink in. There’s no one there when you’re not thinking. You don’t have to run around in your life with a machete, so to speak, and kill the ego, or kill the conditioning, or overcome the programming. You just have to go deep enough so that there’s nobody there following it.
But the mind says, we haven’t had enough fun yet. (chuckle) We come around in this body once, and if I catch you disappearing one more time into this oblivion, I’m going to have a fit. Really. Come back. Don’t disappear. Don’t go too deeply into the peace. Just don’t. I’m here to save you from that.


And there’s a phenomenon going on right now, right this moment. You’re wide awake. Very, very conscious. All of you are very apt. You notice? Look at the attention in this room. Very, very clear and very present. Very awake. And listening. Not gone as if you’re dead, but there’s no ego operating. You notice it? Just notice it. You notice it Ed?

(Student?) Oh yeah.

Stuart: Very much alive but not to the ego. You feel it?

Yeah, it’s like we surrender to the presence, to the silence.

Stuart: Did you? Did you surrender? Did you give anything up?


Stuart: No. So don’t use spiritual surrender words. Surrender. You did not surrender.

That’s true. I didn’t do it willingly.

Stuart: You didn’t do anything. I am just speaking what I’m seeing.

You’re what?

Stuart: I’m just speaking what I’m seeing. You didn’t do anything. You listened. There’s absolutely nothing you have to do to be yourself because you can’t not be yourself. But you can ignore it and think you’re something else trying to do something to get somewhere to have a better experience.



Stuart: Hi.

Hi. I can’t see you because I guess the light in the back—

Stuart: You’re not missing much.


Stuart: Tell me your name again.


Stuart: ______. What does that mean?


Stuart: _______. That’s Indian?

It’s Buddhist.

Stuart: Buddhist. Are you a compassionate soul?


Stuart: Thank god.


Stuart: We could use more of you. So what’s your experience, besides compassion, right now?

At this moment?

Stuart: Of course.


My experience is warmth and home and a sense of calm, peace, and perfect.

Stuart: Calm, peace, and perfect, and warm in a compassionate sort of way.


Stuart: Or heat?

It’s interesting because I’m also picking up the energy, and I also could sense when one was still and the mind


was still, and then it became disrupted, and there was a dance of light, and it was nice to experience. It was a nice experience.

Stuart: Would you say that you’re very deeply into the peace right now?


Stuart: Yes.

Hmm. I think that I feel more like I’m in the ocean floating with it.

Stuart: Were you more in the ocean depths before or is there any difference? I’m talking about eyes closed and now.

No, it’s the same.

Stuart: Same. Yeah, I think so too. So even the idea of closed eye meditation is also necessary and not necessary. Your heart is open. It’s nice to meet you.

Same here.

(Student #4)

Stuart: And how are you, ___?

I’m doing good. Yourself?


Stuart: Good. I say that just in case there’s something you might want to say.


(#3) Nothing you say will be held against you.

Stuart: Well maybe I will.

I was just thinking, you were talking initially about losing yourself in the silence, those type of thoughts. I have a thing I do when I walk in the park. And every now and then, because I like to have fun, I keep my mind busy, but I say, I need to be still. I keep reminding myself as I walk around the park. And I’ll pick an easy goal. I’ll say, all right, twenty feet away, I’m going to be perfectly still, not a thought’s going through my brain. I’m just gonna feel the universe. And invariably, before I get to the end of that twenty feet, something had gotten into my brain, and I grabbed it. It could be whimsical, it could be something I was gonna be doing during the day, but it can catch you so much that when you get out of it, you’re like, what just happened? I thought I was in control. You were completely in that thought, and then you’re back out, and you didn’t make your twenty feet. And you’re like, wow, that’s something. So, that’s one of the experiences I tend to have around the park.
Stuart: How about this afternoon? Did you make it this afternoon?
No, I never make my goal continuously. I can make short steps here or there, but the longer I get it, the less likely I’m gonna stay without a thought. Which lets me know where my practice is at, I suppose.
Stuart: So, would you say that ___’s strategy is to see how long he can be without a thought?
That would be part of it, yeah. How long I can be still.

Stuart: That’s doomed to failure.


I have to agree 100% with you on that one. I’ve been trying for months and years.


(#1) Why is it doomed to fail?

Stuart: Well, because you are the silence. And if you think you have to make sure you don’t think, that means you think you are the person and that the mind is real and the thoughts are real, and you must stop them in order to get somewhere. And all of it is an untruth. One concept on top of the next. It’s saying, if I have to make myself quiet, I, No. 1 concept am this person; No. 2 concept, I am the mind; No. 3, my thoughts are real, and I’m going to prohibit them for


a period of time and get to the truth. So you’re layering yourself away from who you really are.

Yeah. I can agree with that.

Stuart: So even if you’re still in the silence, it won’t let you go deeper and deeper and deeper into the complete open peace. It forbids it because you’ve made yourself subservient to your own thought system. Which you’re taking as you. Now, your thought system got you through college, for the most part. It keeps you in a gainfully employed situation so that you can pay your bills and enjoy some stuff like life and all it has to offer. But it’s not you. You are something completely different than that. Do you know what you are?

Is that a rhetorical question?


Stuart: No. Do you know who you are?

Yeah. I’m an intellectual.

Stuart: That’s fine. I’ll take intellect.

The divine light.

Stuart: The divine light. So, do you ever speak to the divine light as if to say, let’s be quiet now until the next tree? Do you need to tell the divine light instructions?


Stuart: No. So the divine light is you. You know it intellectually, but you don’t believe it. If you believed it, just the thought of the divine light would just strike you as true, and you would be it. You would know it. It would be like saying, I am the divine light. (chuckles) How can you argue with that?

I’m good with it.

Stuart: So then, if you acknowledge that you are the divine light, you become that knowingness. You embody it. (chuckles) And if you embody it, the mind goes quiet automatically. Your identity shifts. And you open up some more too. You feel that?

Yeah. I mean the direction makes sense. It’s more about identifying with your true nature than how long you can be silent.

Stuart: Because somebody is trying to do something to get somewhere to be something else. It’s not—it’s like a game.

That’s exactly how it is, yeah.

Stuart: And it’s a game that’s run on the parameters on how a person lives the life. If you want to get from here to there, you MapQuest it because you’re going from A to B. But to be yourself, there’s no distance travelled. There are no steps. You’ve heard there is no path to the truth, but nobody believes it.


Just tell me how to get there, right?


Stuart: I already did. In your own words, you understand the divine light. Intellectually you say. And you must have an intellectual bent because you’re a tax accountant. A tax lawyer. Which is even more intense. Right? So you understand law and taxes and money and dollars, and they’re always changing, and they’re complicated. So you have a very strong intellect, and you don’t need any of it to be yourself.

I agree.

Stuart: And when you said, you understand divine light, I say great.


Because if the intellect understands it, no problem, no fight. All you have to do is say it. I won’t make you say it out loud either.

I appreciate that.


But it’s a nice direction. I like it.

Stuart: You can call it that.


Stuart: It is so.


Stuart: You look stunned, ______.

I do?

Stuart: Yeah, you do.

Yeah, because he said, it’s a nice direction, but you just said there is no direction. It is just so.

Stuart: Yeah, it’s scary, isn’t it? A little bit?

(Student?) It’s not scary, you know, cause we think all the time, you confuse yourself very quickly, so it makes more sense, to like I said, to identify with who your true nature is than to try to go to the next lamp post.

Stuart: So that’s fantastic. So that’s more than enough. That’s a great understanding. That’s very clear. That’ll make a lot of inroads.

(Student?) Yeah, I think so.

Stuart: Yes?

Yes. I agree.

Stuart: We agree? We don’t have to fight.


And we don’t have to plan the future and have fun.

Stuart: You can. Nothing’s off limits.

Nothing wrong with it, but it’s very important to remember who we are. And at the same time, plan the future. We can do all that, but remain in the center knowing who we are.

Stuart: That’s different than remembering. You see that? It’s being yourself. There’s nobody remembering.

Or planning.

Stuart: Just being. Because when you’re being, everything is happening. You’re leaving your mind, but you’re not leaving your life.

You’re living your life consciously.

Stuart: Yes. You’re home. You used that expression.

(Student 5)

Stuart: No, you did. You’re home. ____?

Yeah. I want to express something in regard to that because this is something that is being kind of an obsessive reflection in me, especially in the last few months. And I agree 100% with what she’s saying. I think that the problem where it becomes difficult for me, and for other people that I talk to about this issue, is the fact that when we plan, we don’t do it for practical reasons. We do it basically because that gives the continuity to the thought of me, and the fact that everything that I plan is attached to that me: my future, my goals, my success, my kids, my wife. So, it’s my image, it’s my structure, and everything that I plan is attached to that. I think that it’s a profound difference in having practical thoughts. We’ll continue to have once we realize who we are because we are still here. So I remember _____ talking about this where he made a huge distinction between the two. And I was following your conversation with, what is your name?


And that’s exactly what we do. We want to be free. We want to be at home. We want to know who we are. But then we pursue that from the very


point that is actually the one that doesn’t allow us to do that. That structure is the one that says, I want to be free. And then we want that prize. We want that sense of freedom. But it’s so conditioned to who we are that we don’t want to let go of the one that says, I want to be free. The one that wants to be free is actually the one that is causing the problem. So that’s where the paradox presents itself. So that’s where some time I reflect, I say, it’s not really relevant to practice anything because practice in itself is actually the very cause of our problem because we’re still trying to get somewhere.

Stuart: Unless the thing you’re practicing works. Like who am I? It’s the only teaching Ramana taught. Or seeing a concept that’s held that if you drop that concept, all of the concepts that are attached to it will drop away. Like exactly what you’re saying. If you drop the concept that I am this man named Paulo, all the concepts attached to it, have nothing to cling to.

That’s absolutely right. So you would say that the only, if you want to call it action, that we have in our arsenal in order to make the practice a real practice is the witnessing of what is going on. So it’s a passive action, but at the same time, it is very alert because it’s looking at what is unfolding without adding anything to it.

Stuart: You could say that. As long as you’re not doing from your mind and assessing emotions and feelings because that’s lower on the scale. Or you could do less than that. I think that when you’re not following your mind, you’re naturally witnessing everything without even thinking about it because that’s who we are. We are the witness.
But since everything is hinged on I am this person—I remember exactly; I was in an art class when I came to the realization that you’re talking about, and the words came to me: I want to be free, but I want to be me free. That’s the crux of the spiritual seeker. That’s the going towards it and wanting to hold on to the person being freer, and then the person will show you how free they are. I see it all over the place. I’m freer this way. I’m happier here. I’m lighter here. I have more of this; less of that. But it’s all hinged to me. I am not leaving me. That’s the ego. Not for a second. Do you have any of that?

At times. I wouldn’t say that it’s a constant thing with me. There is an underlying sense of, I don’t want to sound like I’m presumptuous with this, but I’ve had experiences in my life very clear, and I still have it. All I have to do is close my eyes that I know that I exist before I think. It’s very palpable real, and there’s nothing there. There is no Paulo. There is only this energy that can identify with anything. That is very present in my life. But on the other hand, there’s this opposing energy, which is, I assume, what I’ve gathered throughout the years, the sense of being somebody that is still fighting, with a sense of peace or the letting go or the trusting that. So there’s two sides: the sacred and the mundane, if you want to call it this way.

Stuart: Don’t call it that. You’re making it into something.

But that’s my experience.


Stuart: So you’re talking yourself out of your own experience.

Probably, yes.

Stuart: Can you see it?


Stuart: If you have the awareness and the awakeness of knowing that all you have to do is close your eyes and know that you are before anything, well then, you know who you are. And you’ve tasted it. I hate to tell you, but you’re awake. But the mind doesn’t want to say that, it wants you to doubt that, it wants you to think that either you are in that knowingness 24 hours a day forever to make it so, but since you still have some conditioning, the knowingness of awakeness is not real. That’s a position. You either are awake or you’re not.
You are awake. Even if stuff is arising. Even if there’s conditioning. Because that’s the quickness that you’re talking about. To look at it and say, well look, look at that. Then close your eyes. It’s acknowledging that the conditioning is old, and the conditioning is strong, and we’re surrounded by it, like electricity. The mire is thick conditioning. You’re even picking it up from other people, so to speak. So you acknowledge it, but you don’t put the onus on that you still have someplace to get to—that’s a thought. An erroneous one. Like you say, close your eyes and validate your knowingness. And then there’s no fight. I would say that you’re in the very best position to be in because—yes! you can see it. You can see it.

It doesn’t feel like that at times, but I understand what you’re saying.

Stuart: No, because you think that the things that arise invalidate your knowingness and your awareness. But no, it’s really like excavating into the depths of the bedrock of conditioning and looking at the things that have been held there for centuries, you could say. And you’re in the position of not being the person to face it or change it because you can’t. The person can’t do it because the person believes it. But you’re not the person. Like you said, you close your eyes and you’re eternal. And all the things that you sweat about or worry about or doubt about are a blip to the eternal.

Listening to you, probably the thing that comes to mind is that every time that something pulls me into the mind, actually, it works itself back to the silence. So it really doesn’t matter how painful it is, as long as it’s used as leverage or is the leverage to go to the depth.

Stuart: As long as you meet it with the silence. It’s most powerful.

I tend to rebel sometimes, but at the end, I know that that’s the only way out.

Stuart: Yeah, more. And I hate it. And I don’t want it.


But as you say, if you meet it, it dissolves. Many spiritual people say, I want to feel fine, good, happy, and loving, and as soon as it gets dark or painful or fearful, no good. Don’t want that. No. I’m not gonna do that. And you don’t have to.

Thank you.

Stuart: Anytime.


Stuart: So what is it that keeps coming up that makes you feel like you haven’t accomplished something yet? What is it that makes you feel like you’re not a success?

First of all, I don’t think there’s a total trust in that that I’ve discovered. That’s the main thing. Even though I’m certain, I mean I know that unless there is a total trust, a total abandonment into that, then I will continue to pay the price for it.

Stuart: What does that mean?

A fear of ending this body.

Stuart: It’s a good fear because it’s true.

Yeah, I know. But also at the same time, that’s one of the things that continuously point in the direction of that silence. Even if I rebel against it. There’s nothing to rebel against because that’s the way life is. One of the things that I fear the most is not having fully trusted that before my time is over.

Stuart: Time to close your eyes.

Yes. Just not fully use this time that I’m here to serve that purpose, which I think is the only purpose that we have.

Stuart: See, what you’re saying sounds very true and logical, but I don’t think it’s exactly what’s going on. It’s a good buffer zone, and it keeps you from looking at what’s underneath. Sounds true. Feels true. Probably true.

So you think I’m actually fooling myself?

Stuart: Yes.

It’s possible. I don’t know. What I’m saying in terms of the fear that I have is, it’s very present to me.

Stuart: Yeah, but the fear—you’re not looking at the fear. You’re looking at the reasons not to look at it.

Say that again.

Stuart: You’re not looking at the fear.


You’re not letting the fear—what are you afraid of?

Well, what I told you is that ending, that physical ending.

Stuart: And what will you not be able to finish before the end, in your life? In your life.

Yeah, I know where you’re going.

Stuart: If you waste time closing your eyes and being yourself, what will you not accomplish in your life? Where will you get to? What will you accomplish? What would be your purpose for being here? What’s it all about, Paulo?

Sometimes it just feels that I wish I could, just all, just let it go.

Stuart: But you can’t.

Sometimes it’s hard. I was talking to my friend Omanee today, we were driving in the car, and I said, I don’t understand why this is so simple in its premises, but so complicated when we see it from our standpoint.

Stuart: That’s the whole point: our standpoint.

Yeah, I know.

Stuart: And all the conditioning about accomplishment. You don’t want to waste your life, do you? You don’t want to be a failure, do you? You don’t want to be somebody that didn’t live up to their potential, do you?

Now that you’re saying it, that’s the whole thing right there.

Stuart: It’s very strong conditioning in the West. They don’t have that in India so much. You see the kids; there are like twenty kids—they’re all one. They’re like in a huddle, right? They’re all happy. They’re all experiencing everything. There’s no individuality. It’s just natural. They don’t have to be better or get somewhere or become someone. It’s in the culture. But here, you have to make something of yourself. It’s very strong, and it’s running without any words, unconsciously: to create something unique; to become known; to approve of yourself in some way; to be recognized. It’s very strong. You see it in spiritual teachers. It’s very important. Is it?

No. Obviously not.

Stuart: But it feels like it.

Oh, yes.

Stuart: Very strong. It’s good to see.

(#4) Challenging that belief system is the work of, as you said, looking at the fear and addressing it instead of running from it or diverting from it because that’s what it tends to do. It sees the fear, it says, oh, let me go look over here and do this, and then I’ll no longer feel this fear. But then it follows every direction that you go. And you’re absolutely true in the conditioning that’s been passed down, passed on, in every different culture and situation. I’ve just recently come to realize that our existence, my existence, was someone else’s belief system. And this happened just recently where I sat and I realized that my belief system was not my own. And I did feel fear and then fear


and uncomfortable and agitated, angry. But then I had to come to understand, well then, if that is not my belief system, then what is it? And who am I?

Stuart: It comes back to that. Who am I without that belief system? Do you know?

(#4) Yes.

Stuart: What?

(#4) Just a being.

Stuart: Exactly. Whereas the mind says, I don’t trust it. Why is something so simple, so hard? It’s reinforcing the belief that the conditioning—which we’re not really looking at. We’re just in full motion of making something happen, creating something tangible to leave, what to be known for. Better to become a saint, and then they put up a statue of you, and then people come to the statue and wake up.


Stuart: You know? Because the energy is so palpable of the knowing who you are.

After having said everything I said, I can really see how I am the perfect example of what I stated at the beginning: just wanting to be free without letting go.


Stuart: I want to be free enough to create freely. And it actually works in the opposite direction. If you go in, or as you say, close your eyes, be yourself, feel the freedom, there’s a very good chance that what comes from that will be very, very beautiful. And with a lot less effort.

I experience that while I’m composing. That’s one of the things that really connects me with that sense of not being there at all. And when I listen to some of the things that I do that just happen through me, I’m just in awe. Because I didn’t think about it for one second. It just happened.

Stuart: So you know.

That’s one of the blessings. I think all artists have that. If they pay attention.

Stuart: The good ones.


(#5) There’s also this process of when we become awake and reconnect, take off the veils and all that, it starts to shift the people in our lives that know us or have created this illusion of who we are. And then there’s this also sense of when we shift, it’s going to shift them. So if they’re ready to shift, they will. If they’re not, they move away. But there’s also this fear that comes up from the conditioned mind that says, well, let me not let them know who I am because then it’s gonna challenge who they are. And there’s this dance that goes on. And I’ve come to realize that I’m not responsible now for that of others and how they see me and perceive, or how they want to see me and perceive. So that releases the illusion that I must be who they think I should be.

Stuart: They already know. They already know. People know.


Why do you think people are afraid of that? Because you remind them of something that they don’t want to know?

Stuart: I saw Jim Carrey on David Letterman a couple weeks ago. Anybody see him?

(#6) I did go back and watch it. You can pull it up on—

Stuart: YouTube?

(#6) I guess it’s on YouTube. I don’t know how I got into it, but you can go back and watch it. With the big feet.

Stuart: He was wearing big rubber feet, and he put them on David’s desk. But he’s actually holding satsang. He was saying, you’re not here David, and I’m not here, and there’s nobody here, and I live in the kingdom of heaven, and we all do. But we deny it. Something like that. He went on and on.

(#7) What did David say?

Stuart: People think you’re loony.


Stuart: And you know what he said? Yeah, but if I’m so happy, then they have to question their own state of being, and people don’t want to do that. Just what you said. But we’re all doing that to some degree. If there’s anything that we don’t want to question, then we’re honoring it. And then we’re complaining about it. We’re complaining about the limitation. Limitation is an idea that we hold on to for security.

Yeah. You can definitely not make peace with everybody. You can be at peace with everybody, but not try to, you know—

Stuart: Yeah, you can see that people really, really want to hold on to a lot of ideas and concepts so that they can live within that realm. And if you start breaking through all of those so that they don’t control you, then you’re nuts. You don’t fit in. You can’t. There’s no. So we hold on to the idea of limitation, as if striving to break through them, our own false limitation, is a good thing. Cause then it looks like we’re getting somewhere. We’re working on it. I’m processing it. But I’m not gonna meet it from presence.

See, I’m not talking about the person conquering or surrendering or renouncing or even anything because the person can’t do anything. The person itself is a concept. You’re pure awareness. Pure awareness witnesses. It witnesses their own body doing stuff. And if you could really feel pure awareness, there’s no beginning and there’s no end. So what’s that? That’s eternal. So if we are pure awareness with no beginning and no end, our true nature is eternal.
If we are eternal, then there’s no birth and there’s no death. You’re birthless and deathless. And you experience it. It’s not just an idea. And that means you’re everywhere present because you have no shape or form or limitation. To me, eternal, formless, everywhere present, that sounds a little bit like god, doesn’t it? That’s how we talk about it. It’s everywhere present. Eternal. Formless. Well, that’s who we are. We’re limiting ourselves with


ideas of labeling what we appear to be and honoring limitation. And definitely not making waves. (chuckles)


Stuart: (chuckles) What do you have to say for yourself?

(#8) I just feel in awe of the energy that comes from that when you have clarity like that. And a kind of intelligence and moving on it, and knowing it’s the truth, and you can feel it.

Stuart: It’s got a reverberation to it.

(#8) There’s like no words for that sense of that energy. I mean, if that doesn’t make you trust.

Stuart: Well, at least it quiets the doubt, a little bit. At least. For now. I’m not gonna be greedy.

I just want to say something. I don’t want to take over the conversation, but I’m not very fond of going to satsangs and to be in the presence of people that call themselves or are called spiritual teachers simply because I find that there is an underlying agenda that I can’t really figure out, but I perceive it. There’s something about it. But the reason why I came back, and I wanted to be here is because for the first time I sense that I can have a conversation with somebody that goes beyond the one that knows and the one that doesn’t. It’s a simple exchange of information and energy that is devoted to looking at the same thing, and so I’m very grateful for that.

Stuart: Me too. I don’t go to satsangs either.


(Various) It just happened, right?

(Various) I don’t know what happened.

Stuart: They just show up.

I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there. Or not misinformation, there’s a lot of the way that it’s presented keeps the illusion somehow going on.

Stuart: Of somebody knowing and somebody not knowing.


Stuart: Positioning.


(#9) There again, it’s like when you feel that energy, there has to be that recognition that that’s not coming from anyone.

Stuart: You have to leave yourself to feel that.


Stuart: Right, _____?


(Various) We were talking about you when you were gone.


Stuart: And it wasn’t good.


Doesn’t mean it was bad.


Stuart: He’s so positive.



(Student = #10)

Stuart: Did you want to say something?


Stuart: Not me. Not on your life.


Stuart: No?

I’ve just been happy. Like I feel happy. Ever since I woke up, and it continues as a good thing.

Stuart: That’s nice.

Yeah. Witnessing. Witnessing. Yeah.

Stuart: Good.


(Student = #11)

Stuart: Does anybody want to say anything?

I do have a question that arose. Because you were saying that the belief systems weren’t yours, and then I thought, are any belief systems ours? Are any beliefs ours?

Stuart: Are they?

I was closing my eyes and looking within. I think they’re all made up.

Stuart: I think you’re right.

They’re all conditioning. They’re all things that is not who we are. How can we be limited to a belief?

Stuart: Well, would you say that in order to play the game of life, you have to act as if the beliefs are real?


Stuart: And you have to honor them as if they’re real?

Well, I’m not sure about honoring them.

Stuart: But believe.

I think we can play that they’re real. We only need to honor the truth.

Stuart: Yes. Well, you are that.


Stuart: See, I think the issue is that I think we all at one time knew that none of the beliefs were real because we didn’t believe them until we were hounded that we must. You know, law and order? If you don’t behave, you get punished. You start believing the make-believe in order not to suffer. Like even the laws that the government puts out, were supposed to be originally in our favor. And now we’re always looking for loopholes.

(Student?) I’m shocked that that would take place.


Stuart: Exactly. Totally shocking.


So it’s like a kid knows that play is real, fun is real, happy is real, and if I’m not enjoying, I’ll do something else. Until they’re corralled in, and they’re dirty, and then they’re wrong, and then they’re bad, and then you sort of like have to go along with the rules in order to live, to survive. So we forget that we’re playing within a system of rules: condominium rules, owner rules, city rules, county rules, road rules, religion rules, tax rules—which I haven’t done yet.


Stuart: And it’s kind of like, how do you not follow rules?

Yeah, you follow them but know that they are made up.

Stuart: Hopefully.

That it’s just a game.

Stuart: Hopefully. But then somebody passes a red light and smashes into somebody, and injustice appears in the system, and the rules are very important to us. He did wrong. This is not right. Vengeance or retaliation or—

It’s important to have the rules to keep the system in place, but it’s just our awareness of realizing that all our belief systems, our whole belief system that we think is our belief system is not ours. It’s made up, and we use it while we’re here to keep the system in play, which is fine, nothing wrong with it. And I’m sure there’s other civilizations that do with less belief systems and they do fine.

Stuart: What I’m saying to you is, now that you see it so clearly, question how much you have to honor it at all. How much do you dare not honor it? I’m using the word “honor” without thinking about it, even though you said that’s not the issue. Because we really do honor the rules, and we dishonor them. And we want other people to play within the rules (chuckles) so that we can break them. Or at least I do.

I mean, how much fun to break rules, you know?

Stuart: Rules are made to be broken. As you know.

The ultimate revolutionary to me is Jesus. When Jesus walked on water, the miracles that he did, and also all the sages and the miracles that they do, they break all the rules. You know this is supposed to be. You’re not supposed to be able to do this. This is breaking our whole concept of reality. And those are the true revolutionaries. We are the true revolutionaries, actually. We’re breaking the rules by, actually, this is to me what I love to do. When you look at the energy medicine, what’s going on in the field of energy medicine, instead of taking a pill—

Stuart: To suppress.

Work with energy, which is what we are. You know, work with energy for healing. And instead of like putting labels on what we can eat, what we shouldn’t eat, look at the energy of the fear that is coming by limiting this is


good for me, this is not good for me. We do it automatically under the guise of healthy and all that stuff. But we need to really be aware that none of that exists. Like in the Course in Miracles it says, that pill that you take isn’t magic. Keep on taking it if you believe that that is gonna heal you, but that is your own belief system that is creating the healing. It’s not the pill. So, that is to me where we are the true revolutionaries. When we break all those subtle belief systems that we automatically embrace on a daily basis.

Stuart: Yes. I agree with you 100%.

And that’s exciting to me.

Stuart: Yeah, because you’re breaking through all concepts when you do that. It’s like you’re expanding out of your own mind.

In questioning the beliefs.

Stuart: No. Even more than that. You’re not even questioning the beliefs. You’re expanding out of the beliefs. You’re disregarding everything that isn’t known to you as the truth—firsthand. That’s dishonoring beliefs. If you don’t know it for yourself, it’s not true. If you know it for yourself, it’s your truth. So if you’re expanding into your own knowingness of truth, you’re dishonoring everything that sounds true, may be true, other people can say it’s true, but who cares? It’s not my truth. That’s revolutionary.

And it’s very exciting to me. Even knowing that we’re speaking and communicating through words, but really, they’re not necessary because we’re telepathically communicating, and it’s our energy that we’re feeling. Really the words are limiting. The words themselves are limiting. And I think right now, really, there is a shift in consciousness taking place where more people are becoming aware of and more people are embracing this consciousness. And we’re breaking all kinds of molds. And it’s fun for me to see that. In every facet of the planet. Politically. We’re doing all kinds of—it’s fun. Can you imagine we’re a society where we won’t have to use words?

Stuart: Okay. I’m speechless.

How fun is that?

Stuart: Enough talking.

We might not even need to eat. We can just live off of the sunlight.

Stuart: Tasty. (chuckles) Raw foods.

Because the more we become conscious, the more we realize we’re not our body, so we’re not as dense.

Stuart: I was gonna say that raw food is gonna seem decadent when you get your nutrients from the sunshine.


Stuart: Well, thank you for opening your house for this presence. Thank you all for coming. Thank you for satsang.